CPA Leadership Podcast: Julio Interviews Mark Quann, Author of the book Top 10 Ways to Avoid Taxes

Host Julio Gonzalez discusses with Mark about his book, Top 10 Ways to Avoid Taxes: A Guide to Wealth Accumulation, Taxes, and much more!


Julio Gonzalez 0:17
This week on our podcast, we have a special guest, Mark Quann. Mark. You know, it's great to have you on today. We really appreciate you joining us.

Mark Quann 0:29
Well, thanks. Thanks for having me. I was looking forward to talking to you today.

Julio Gonzalez 0:34
Mark, I just finished your book top 10 ways to avoid taxes and Listen, I've been helping people avoid taxes about 2 billion a month for a couple of decades. So we we do some engineering type of studies to help people you know, lower taxes, you know, maybe you help them avoid it. We help them lower it a little bit. So we'll lower it and then you'll take it the rest of the way. How's that sound?

Mark Quann 1:00
It sounds fantastic to me. tax avoidance is probably one of my favorite topics these days especially you know, I live in California and one of the chapters in the book says is don't live in California. So you know, I live in one of the highest place taxes ever so i i do have I do enjoy tax avoidance.

I enjoyed that chapter and I guess you could add don't live in New York don't live in New Jersey don't live in Illinois. I mean, don't live in any of those high state taxes right?

Well, I wish I list them in alphabetical order on the worst places to live in in the United States as far as taxes go so that's that's the very first part of chapter and the book on don't call don't live in California. The funny thing is, it was a it was called top 10 ways to avoid taxes but I was actually finished the 10 ways and a friend of mine was joking around. He goes, you should we'll call them one of one don't live in California. And I just had to add extra chapter to the book. So that chapter came out of a joke, but I think it's got some good content as far as coaching or other business owners, you know, ways to move their businesses or parts of their business out of California to save a huge amount of taxes. So it is really tax avoidance. So,

Julio Gonzalez 2:13
yeah, I like it. And I'm a big advocate of not living in California, although it's so beautiful there.

Mark Quann 2:21
The weather is hard to leave, I'll be honest with you. I'm not coming from Canada, where it's where I grew up very cold, to live in a nice warm climate where it's sunny every day. It's hard to make that trade off, be honest to you, but I think that there might be a way for me to, you know, have, you know, spend some time in California may be less than six months a year or something like that. Maybe I can take my own advice and not live in California because I'm starting to get into those higher tax brackets, which, you know, pretty, pretty fortunate to be to be in those higher tax brackets.

Julio Gonzalez 2:55
Yeah, well, hard work, you know, and success. You know, I guess that leads into one of Your chapter is about, you know, create a business.

Mark Quann 3:04
Very much. Yeah, I'm a I'm a, I've been I come from a family of four entrepreneurs, but nobody's really ever made any money. We're already very entrepreneurial. My dad was a bricklayer, you know, and I used to make concrete with my dad, Los Angeles, when I was a kid, he always owned his own business, and my dad used to say, Mark, you're never going to get rich, rich working for somebody else. And that was the advice yet my dad never did well, financially. He made a lot of mistakes, and you never quite got a business off the ground and things like that. But he planted that seed. And then my sister followed in that advice, and she started her own business and, and she's and then I kind of have an entrepreneurial type of family. And we always want to own our own businesses. So you know, I was I was actually a private investigator. When I went up to Canada come to Los Angeles, I was a private investigator, and it was a good business because I could have a very flexible schedule. Learn, learn the business environment, learn to be an entrepreneur, learn about investing, learn about tax savings and things. I spent 20 years just as an active entrepreneur, investor, learning things. And, you know, it just seemed like an opportunity to take take that in that some of the things that I've learned and put it into a book. So the first book I wrote to you five years to write, and then that was released in 2014. And then top 10 ways to avoid taxes, the IRS was released in 2018. And they're really just a lot of lessons that I've learned along the way. And also, you know, 15 years professionally in the investment industry, learned a lot of things and a book just seemed like a good way to get the information out there.

I think so, I mean, you know, I've tried to write books. It's a hard process. I mean, it takes a lot of commitment.

It's a love hate relationship. The first one was five years from start to finish. So it was a very painful process. I literally, I couldn't even bear to look at the book but toward the end and I that's where I needed some help with it. But then the next one took me 30 days. So I ended up getting sick and had a lot of downtime and, and on recovery, I literally had sat on my couch for five weeks just doing nothing but writing and rewrites every day for six, four or five weeks. So, you know, what was a sort of a health issue, I was able to turn it into something positive and, and get the next one. Now I'm actually writing another book right now. So I'm finishing up book number three. So I think the first one's definitely the hardest I would, you know, I would say that it's definitely the hardest one to get that first one out.

Julio Gonzalez 5:32
Yeah, it takes a big commitment. And I know you put your heart into this book, right.

Mark Quann 5:38
I literally, I mean, again, I like to make things very simple and easy to understand. And it's very hard to take. I find it very difficult to read financial books myself, because I find that many are very boring. They're factual, and they just waste a lot of time. So I'll tell you a standard that I have in when I'm fostering books is that It comes from a book called The Four Hour Workweek. And, and, you know, just, I was listening to an interview about the book. And they said the standard and writing a book should be very, very simple. And it should say, each chapter of the book is worth the cost of the book. And I was like, when I heard that, I was like, Wow, that's a great standard for a book. So that's my standard today is that I want to make sure every single chapter of the book provides at least enough value for the book. So if somebody spends $25 on a book, hopefully they wish, we can say 25. But I think you could take $25 and you could learn one little tax code in there and could save you millions of dollars over your life. So I think when you're reading finance books, and things like that, if I like to keep them simple, short, easy to understand, short chapters get to the point and provide the most value in every single chapter. So that's really the standard that I have as an author today. And I really try to meet that standard and provide a tremendous amount of value to anybody who purchases the book.

Julio Gonzalez 7:00
I like it and I got a lot of value out of it. But, you know, why don't you share with everyone, you know what you went through and what kind of generated the inspiration for this book, which I found fascinating.

Mark Quann 7:13
Okay, I was getting very sick over a two year period I was having, like, I was having difficulty like less breathing, it was even more difficult to breathe. So I knew I had something wrong with it. I couldn't find out. I went to doctors, I couldn't find what was going on. But I was diagnosed with what's called a mitral valve prolapse. And that's basically when you have a bow before the heart is starting to leak. And what it does is it cause your heart to pump faster and then you become sort of like slowly dying from oxygen deprivation. So I finally got diagnosed with that and ended up having heart surgery and in 2018, and during the recovery time, I decided that I needed to write Another book, I was actually at the ICU of USD Keck hospital, in the ICU afterwards. And I decided, you know, I needed, I had a lot of time on my hands, and I wanted to make use of it. So just kind of got inspired to write another book. And I just started writing down all the ideas of all the ways that I've avoided taxes legally, successfully over the years and said, No, this would be a nice simple book. And I thought there would be a lot of value for for the average person. But the thing about it is that the reviews that I got from CPAs, before I released the book were things like, oh, anybody can use these tax codes. That's what they really liked about it. It wasn't for the wealthy. There's tax codes for you're really wealthy in there. There's tax codes for the middle class. And there's even tax codes where, you know, just the average person can learn learn about these things, and take advantage of them. So I didn't want to write a book just for like, super affluent people. I wanted to write a book for the average person to know how these things can work and then to use them and there is a lot of tax codes in there. That and that's sort of the feedback that I got before releasing the book is that was that was a simple thing. And and fortunately I had that that downtime after heart surgery. So I just wanted to turn something that that into a positive thing. So there also I was on some pretty strong Norco. So I don't know if that was a little bit of an inspiration to

Julio Gonzalez 9:22
Well, Mark, let me ask you, because, you know, just digressing a second here, because you said that you learned that, you know, it really depends on you know, what, doctor you use what hospital to use and different approaches to the surgery, which I found fascinating because I guess, to avoid taxes, you got to be alive and making money.

Mark Quann 9:47
And you definitely do I agree with you on that. Yep.

Julio Gonzalez 9:51
And, and it sounded like, you know, through that process, you found out a lot just about going through that process. about just how to You know, best approach it with the different, you know, medical facilities.

Mark Quann 10:07
And yet that was sort of where the inspiration came for the book. It's funny, so you're sitting in that you're sitting in a hospital. And what happened is, is that I was given some very bad advice and I was actually booked for open heart surgery on a Thursday morning, which was two days later. And I got she got warned by a nurse in the hospital, that, that this was not the best place to get the surgery and and totally shocked me when when a nurse in the hospital rips rescue her job to tell you that the hospital that you're in, which is a major, it's a very big hospital, they do a lot of hurt surgeries, but they he literally warned me that the results would be much worse at another location. So doing a tremendous amount of research, I figured out the best place to get it. And and, you know, just going through that process I wrote you know that that was really the thinking process of Wow, it's very similar to just picking your advisors and anything in life. I mean, you know, heart surgery would have been, well, the results would have been very bad compared to what they were I ended up at, you know, one of the best heart surgeons in the world. So by doing research, and the same, the same results are with finances, especially with taxes, you know, who you pick as your advisor is going to determine your results. And it's so funny that, you know, a lot of people pick advisors that are never going to be wealthy. They say I want to become wealthy or financially independent, but they have advisors who really will never become financially independent themselves. And they've kind of picked they get they get average advice, though, and it's shocking to me today, that some of the things that you guys do over there just understanding, you know, depreciation and how to accelerate that most people aren't getting that advice yet so many people can use it. So working in the industry for 15 years, just seeing what advice out there. I was pretty shocked how The advice that people are getting are not really going to build wealth for them. And that was also the purpose is that, you know, all the advice that people are given, in my opinion is not very good, say the least. And people really need more advanced strategies and better understanding of tax avoidance if they want to build real wealth, and all this all the strategies that I use, implement them in my own life and to implement them in my investing. And I certainly recommend them to my clients.

Julio Gonzalez 12:27
Okay, well touch upon, you know, you talk about stocks and bonds, and you outline strategies for the Roth IRA, the municipal bonds and the capital gains taxes. Let's start with us three, and talk a little bit about you know, what your strategies are there.

Mark Quann 12:46
Okay, so I have a very simple strategy in all my investing and this is something that was really realization that got me to start my second company and I started a company called the Remi group Remi group has an acronym For real estate, mortgage insurance investments, so we provide consulting services in all four of those areas. A lot of our clients are business owners. And my standard is very simple. It says if I can't use other people's money in my investing, it's not a good investment for me. It isn't anyway. So if I can't use other people's money or OPM in my investing, it's not a good investment, I tend to recommend strategies where I can use other people's money to invest, right, that's why I love real estate, that's such a great strategy, because you can borrow, you can put 10% down or 5% down or 20% down on a piece of real estate the bank put together 80% or whatever that is, your returns are much better than you can get in a typical retirement account and things like that. So I'm a big fan of other people's money. You know, I I don't I'm not a fan of deferring taxes in the future. I mean, yes, it's true that if you if you're an tax bracket, you're in a high tax bracket and you put money into a retirement account. Let's say you're going to save taxes. That's true. But really, are you going to save taxes? Are taxes going to go up in the future? What's your tax bracket on the back? Are you going to trigger taxation on your social security when you take it out? All these things are factors and they're not discussed with typical CPA firms and things like that. They're just saying, Hey, your put it in here and save yourself some taxes. In my opinion, there's just much better ways to do that. You know, for me, I'm 42. I don't want to walk my money into a retirement account. When I could go take that money and invest in tax exempt investments for the rest of my life, whether it be buying a piece of real estate living in it two years and then selling it and take a quarter million tax free. Now I can take a relatively small amount of money and turn that into $250,000 tax free, so that seems a better investment to me then saving some tax money by throwing it into a retirement account. Again, I do recommend retirement accounts provided One thing, if a person has a match on their 401k, that's the other people's money, I recommend that. But other than that, I would never put any money into retirement accounts. I don't own a Roth IRA, I don't own an IRA. I don't own any retirement accounts. Just because if you understand taxes better, you're going to find those a lot better ways to create wealth, and actually eliminate taxes. And, you know, I'm even excited about the things that are going on with the cares act. And and I think that's where we got the introduction is, is the many ways we can save our clients, taxes within, you know, the current IRS act with COVID going on. But yeah, those are my standards. If I can't use other people's money, it's not a good investment. I'm just not a fan of deferring money into retirement accounts.

Julio Gonzalez 15:44
Yeah, I mean, I think you and I agree, I guess, you know, those things that you talked about, maybe it's just, you know, the old school way of always doing things right is kind of saving for the future.

Mark Quann 15:58
Yeah, but it's, it's interesting because you know, people, but to take real estate, for example, you look at most people in the United States, whereas all their all their wealth created, it's in their real estate, right? It gets into real estate. And maybe it's a they get a match on a 401k. And that's where all their wealth is created, right? But they don't go away. Why not just why Why? Why don't we buy one house, right? Why not buy two houses? If that's where all your wealth is created? Why not take the money, you would be throwing into a retirement account and try and get some tax savings? And don't buy one home? Why not buy two homes or something, you know, so again, just using other people's money, if I can put a small amount and use the bank's money, I'd much rather do that then then stock your socket into retirement account. Yeah. And it's just people been doing the same thing forever. And they're getting, they're getting the same results. And unfortunately, you know, I like to work with business owners because I can make the most effective budding business owners real estate investors and then yellow I do some employee financial literacy seminars. So if we working with a company, and they want to educate their employees, I could do seminars for employees too. That way I can help the entire population. But I generally focus on real estate investors and business owners.

Julio Gonzalez 17:13
It makes sense. I always say that real estate is the one investment in this country, you actually get to expense. You can event you can expense the stocks and the bonds and you know, you don't get $1 for dollar write off in those investments. But in real estate, you get to write off dollar for dollar.

Mark Quann 17:30
I absolutely 100% could agree with you more. One of my favorite quotes about real estate is out. You know, john Paulson was an investor and multi billionaire. He said, If you don't own a home, buy one. If you don't, if, if you own a home, buy another one. If you own two homes by a third, and then lend your relatives the money to buy a home, john Paulson, so that would really summarize I mean, a lot most of the wealth is built in real estate and businesses. So No, I don't know any wealthy people who only invested in retirement accounts. I mean, they just have a big tax problem with what they have.

Julio Gonzalez 18:07
Well, you know, share with the audience real quickly, you talk about life insurance for tax avoidance. Can you expand on that?

Mark Quann 18:16
That's what that's what I'm saying that that's what my third book is about. I literally have so many conversations in a day about the value of life insurance. And I had to write another book. So I'm releasing another book in the next couple weeks, so it'll be on Amazon. But yeah, life insurance is really why I believe one of the most powerful tools for growing money with no taxes, growing money with no risk, actually beating the performance of the stock market. And then four is using other people's money and also protecting your assets. So it can do a lot of different things. It's like a Swiss Army Knife of investing, right if you can protect your assets, you know, life insurance if you die Long Term Care Insurance. If need be. Came sec, which protects your assets later in your life or tax your 401k is protects your real estate, protecting you from downside of the market. So if you had a major major stock market crash, you're not going to lose any money. And the more important is the ability to borrow from the insurance company without liquidating the investment. I think that's really one of those things. I like to think of it as having a tax free family bank, a place you can stop after tax money, right? If you paid taxes on it, now, it's your after tax money, you can shelter that, and you can do it. And one of my favorite strategies would be for real estate investors. You can stuff a large amount of money by my largest client last year was putting about $300,000 a year into this, this one strategy, and that's 300,000 a year over five years, never funded again. And then when they wanted to buy real estate, they could borrow 20% from the insurance company, and put and then borrow the other 80% from the bank and then they'd have none of that. their own money in their investing. So that's a that's a great strategy for building wealth. And because the accounts cannot lose money can only go up and it can never go down. And it's exempt from state, federal and capital gains taxes the rest of your life. It's a pretty powerful strategy.

Julio Gonzalez 20:16
Yeah, it seems like for business owners, it's, it makes sense as a strategy is just the hardest one of them to understand. I think it's maybe because there's a lot of insurance agents out there that just don't do a good job of explaining it.

Mark Quann 20:30
100% Trust me, I was in that world for, you know, 15 years, I've seen them the way those agents are trained. They're not trained properly, the policies aren't set up necessarily properly, the vast majority of them, if you were to criticize it, it's just the agents aren't necessarily trained. Also, the policies have improved a lot in the last five, six years. So yeah, you know, it is really a training problem. So it's You know, and just understand what's the purpose of it. The thing is that it's a Swiss Army knife. So one person may just want to put a small amount of money into this policy, and just have permanent life insurance and long term care. They're not using it for investment. That's fine. That works really well. You can get inexpensive long term care insurance to protect your assets. One person might want to say, Hey, Mark, I want to pay off my home in 20 years, how do I do that? Right? I can show them a strategy. One other person might say, hey, I want to fund my kids college funds. I have a, my, my, my son or daughter is being born this year. I want to be able to pay off their college funds, you know, 18 1920 years down the road. One personal strategy to be could be on an emergency fund in my business. Another person strategy could be Hey, I want to retain these key employees in my business. What's a strategy to retain the NPC employees in my business? That is always that and I that's why I had to write a whole book on it on this topic because it's about what is your purpose, everybody He's got a different purpose. So it's really fulfilling that person's purpose as far as their investing and their goals, and they're protecting their assets. So one thing I think we need to protect people from future tax increases, and I think we need to protect people from future stock market crashes, because we know that we know the market can can can crash 50% it's done that quite a lot. And, you know, in a much bigger one, I don't know if dollar cost averaging is going to work that well, if we have a really, really big one. Now. Also, people make a lot of emotional mistakes when the market goes down, they sell off in losses. So people, you also have to put the emotional factor in there that people make a lot of mistakes when they're scared. So

Julio Gonzalez 22:44
makes sense. But you know, you mentioned the cares packets and, you know, the tax benefits there. What, what were you focused in on there?

Mark Quann 22:55
So, basically, you're looking at what you know, looking back with businesses are as far as decrease Right. So we all know depreciation on rental property is one of the chapters in my book, where you can buy a piece of real estate, you can rent it, and then you can write it off on your taxes. So that's your basic depreciation. But it wasn't in the JOBS Act, they came out where you could accelerate the depreciation, and you can bring some of that depreciation you'd be receiving over the next, you know, 20, or 30 to 30, or even 30 3040 years, whatever. So 27 and a half and 39 years, and you can bring that forward. So that was a huge opportunity for many people that own commercial real estate rental properties. And then of course, the cares Act allows you to go back five years and that's a huge advantage for for business owners. So I mean, anybody that has a business, it could be a dentist office, in fact, I just, I just had an introduction. Actually, I just sent a referral to you guys or a dentist, that I know that it's got a large dental practice, and you know, they're doing they're doing okay, but they see you some time. Saving. So, yeah, just it's taking the basic depreciation that we people understand. And then you can accelerate it forward with the JOBS Act, and then you can accelerate it, you bring it back five years with the cares act. So it's just understanding that the opportunities that exist with with with tax changes and the things are always changing. So you got the concept of good advisors that really dig into this stuff, and aware of aware of the changes. Yeah,

yeah, I agree with you. Now, Chapter 10. says to avoid tax die.

Yeah, absolutely. There you can die incorrectly or you can die correctly as far as a tax perspective, right? We all know we're going to die. But, you know, for example, you know, if you die with a retirement account, okay, a large retirement account. Well, what happens to your heirs there continue to tax on that for the rest of whether somebody died with a million dollars in a retirement account. They're going to pass the tax problem. So not only are they paid They taxed during all their retirement years. When they die, they're passing that tax problem to their heirs. If they die with a million dollars of stock and they die, a million dollars goes to their heirs, you really have to factor in when I die. How's the IRS gonna treat that? Okay, is that asset going to my IRS tax free? Or is it just gonna pass on future tax problems? So looking at not only how do I grow it tax free? How do I retire in a low tax environment and then when I die, how to die with a proper asset structure where you'll pay the least or very little tax of course, real estate as you know, we got not only the advantage of using other people's money growing it when you die, you know, generally enough tax codes change. You know, we can get a step up and basis and Paxos real estate zero it says also deciding which assets do I spend down in retirement during the retirement years, and which can be passed to my errors because a person's gonna spend down an asset better To spend down a retirement account and try and spend down a soccer count or a real estate just because of the tax perspective. So just knowing how to how to dive properly when it comes to taxes and structure properly.

Julio Gonzalez 26:12
Yeah, I mean, we've seen a lot of examples where people didn't have those structures in place. And, you know, the families end up giving most of it back in tax.

Mark Quann 26:24
Absolutely. And then of course, we have people who are more high net worth, right if they if they have, you know, data exemption on that say about 22 million because they're married. What happens with the with the remaining money? I think it was already quite an article I read with James Gandolfini from the sopranos. He died with I think $17 million of net worth. And you know, he did as a state he did as well and trust, but he didn't do any tax planning. I think the number was 38 million that they had to pay in taxes on 70 million. So, you know, that's a pretty hefty tax bill from dying and not doing tax planning. Yeah. So, you know, if we're under 22 million, we can still die with 22 million and pass it on. But again, that's not. But if you died with, you know, a very large retirement account, that's just more tax problems, your past injury, it's not problems, but, you know, it's not the best way to classify errors. So anybody under 22 million with current tax code, but in 2025, there, you know, those things are going to change again. And those things could go up or down. So again, you constantly have to be, you know, audible owing to the tax changes, and that's where good advice become them. And I just don't think people are getting it, especially the business owners aren't.

Julio Gonzalez 27:43
Yeah, and Mark Mark, why is a CPA community missing these things?

Mark Quann 27:50
Without I know a lot of good CPAs and I think it I think it has to do with our schooling system. Okay, man, I hate knock school. But I went to school for business and finances. And when I walked out of there, I didn't really get any that much value. But I got a lot of student loans and credit card debts. And I think that's a big issue is school about keeping the schools going, so they can charge us for student loans. It's a it's an interesting line there because it's a business these days. Yeah. And it's unfortunate, unfortunately, those CPAs they come from those same schools that teach the same thing over and over again. And, you know, I never got my advice in school, I never got my education in school. I at all, I mean, I walked away with a general understanding, but I had to go out in the real world and and, you know, I didn't seek advisors who are traditional. I took the advice of other entrepreneurs and other investors and asked them questions over the past 20 years, and that's where I got my education. So we have to work with people that are that are understanding these things, and you want to get wealthy go and talk to somebody The wealthy and ask how they did it, who their advisors are, you're probably going to get very different results. Because just because somebody has a yo CPA on their wall, I mean, they're good at taking your deductions on your business. And they're also very, very valuable to a good CPA is, is worth a tremendous amount of money if you have one pays them very well. But I think that you ever get out and then you have to change your advisors and especially as your net worth goes up, you really have to look at it, you know, and if you just go go work, go talk with another advisor, they gave you some ideas that your CPA doesn't that doesn't mean your CPA is not doing their job. It's just not everybody can know anything. I mean, just what 80,000 tax at 1000 pages, current tax codes, nobody can know it all. So you really have to have different advisors that specialize if you're working with a real estate person. Hopefully they know the tax codes that could help you in the real estate area. You really have to have specialized advisors. specialized knowledge is what people pay for these days. It's having a special piece, and that's where you're going to get your advice. So I agree on that. Nothing CPAs are doing a bad job. You're saying though CPAs that go the extra mile, and really dig into this stuff and learn this stuff and really make sure that they're maximizing for their clients.

Julio Gonzalez 30:10
Well, we certainly hope the CPAs are doing that for us, right, going that extra mile, bringing in additional resources to help us preserve our wealth.

Mark Quann 30:20
I you would think so, but I review a lot of people's finances and it's shocking to me that the most basic things aren't done. At a recent client we took on lately, their income was around 300,000 a year. And they were never told to set up an S Corp. I mean, and they're in California. Oh, I mean, that's that should that should have been a basic thing that's done for a client. I mean, if a CPA is that, that lazy, that they're not going to tell sit down with our client and say, hey, you're a sole proprietor and you make 300,000 a year after your deductions. And you're not using an S Corp. I mean, Come on, we need to have at least give her clients some good advice. So, again, I know a lot of great CPAs that we work with. And they really go the extra mile, but I'm just not seeing that. I'm seeing a lot of missed opportunities. When, when when me and my term will go for a client situation.

Julio Gonzalez 31:16
Yeah, yeah, good point. But tell us a little bit about the strategy for a reverse mortgage.

Mark Quann 31:25
Okay, so chapter 13. This is this has got to be the most controversial chapter just because when you say the words reverse mortgage, most people check out and they go, that's a horrible strategy is everything's good and everything is bad, right? Everything's good if you do if you do something, right. It's a strategy, right? It works good if you do a bad job. So but now, basically, there's, most people will do reverse mortgages. They do it because they have to. Okay, so they have, they haven't saved enough money for retirement. They're in their home. They stuffed all the money in their home. They didn't save for retirement, maybe they have medical issues, they need some cash. So they are forced to go into reverse mortgage, they take that income on the reverse mortgage. And then when they die, whatever is equity is remained in the home when the home is sold goes to their heirs. So it can be a good strategy. Most people use that because they're forced to, but how about the people that don't that don't need to imagine somebody bought a home and you know, Beverly Hills or something for $300,000, whatever, 40 years ago, back home could be worth $8 million. Okay, what if that home is paid off? What if that person doesn't need a reverse mortgage? But what if they wanted to buy some more real estate but they didn't want to payment so there could be an opportunity to reverse mortgage that $8 million home if you say take out two and a half million and go buy some really good real estate at the beach with it, you know or something like that. So it can be used as a strategy to to buy other real estate It can also be had used to have insurance or long term care to protect the assets. Because if you just have one asset your home, and and that's it, well, it can go up, it can go down. But if you have, if you leverage the game that you borrowed from it and bought more real estate, you can buy two pieces of real estate with 50% down, when I own three pieces of real estate, right? shown three pieces of real estate and appreciate to make a lot more money than owning one. So it's just sitting down with the numbers and seeing what you can do. And also people have real estate, they don't have long term care insurance, or they could have to sell the real estate or whatever to cover those needs. So also, within that structure, you could, you know, purchase a life insurance Long Term Care Plan, which could protect your assets and also Pass Pass more money to zeros. So it's not really the reverse mortgage itself, that's good or bad. It's what do you do with the money afterwards? And, and that was a huge opportunity there too. I mean, I'm 42 right. I buy a home and I have a mortgage payment of 2000 $2,000 a month, if I could reverse mortgage my house, and then take $2,000 a month that I was paying into the mortgage, and then go buy another piece of real estate, would that be a good strategy? Absolutely. I'd rather own two pieces of real estate than one.

So how does it who's it typically work for best?

it works for people that are that aren't stuck into that, you know, do the same thing that everybody else is doing. For one thing, because most people, you know, they people that understand investing, they understand real estate. Again, it comes back to if you own one real estate, well, why not? Why not own companies as a real estate, if I could reverse mortgage a house for a client who's, you know, 65 years old, and they use that money that they were paying in the back real estate to buy another piece of real estate? Well, now they own two pieces of real estate. Now they might have a rental property to sell it works for people that that are that see the opportunity to earn more real estate It certainly works for people who don't need the money and they could reverse mortgage their, you know, $8 million home and, and find them some great, great real estate deals, especially in a down economy, right? That could be an opportunity. So it works for again, most people are in the, you know, their help. Most people are reverse mortgages, they're helping the person who's really in bad shape, and they had to reverse mortgage. There's opportunities for people, if they get educated and they have good advisors, they can actually build their wealth, pass more wealth to their heirs, and diversify their investments by what not just owning, you know that one piece of real estate.

Julio Gonzalez 35:38
So, there's so much good tips here. And well tell us a little bit about your first book.

Mark Quann 35:45
Oh, rich man bar bank. That was a I worked a lot when I was a newer advisor, just in helping people get out of debt, just when I was learning the industry. And I realized the difference between this the system itself have sort of like where I went to college, I went to college and I walked away, dropped out. I didn't see the value that I was getting in business school, but I ended up with law student loans and credit card debt. Right now I got out of credit card debt and student loans pay those off. What's that? What's funny is I bought a piece of real estate that went up in value and then I sold it and then took a bunch of money tax free and paid off the student loans and credit card debt. That was one of the lessons that was that I learned. But then people keep telling you, Oh, we got to go rack up your credit cards, get all these things to build your credit and stuff. So it's just about the system that's been built in the banking industry and how people are are being kind of set up to fail the way the banking industry is being built so it's rich man poor bank, it's really what the banks don't want you to know about money. There's also some things about you know, Social Security running out of money that in there and, and some pretty good basic so to get better good economics, basic good basics of finance book. I generally recommend people read rich man poor banks if they need a public picks up funding on financial education. But then they can jump into top 10 ways to avoid taxes or some other strategies. And then, you know, I've got another book in the pipeline, if they really want to dig into the subject don't know, investing in insurance and building a type three family bank. So some basics. And then there are,

Julio Gonzalez 37:18
yeah, so the Third Bank, or the third book will, you know, go through the details of insurance more.

Mark Quann 37:25
It really does. And it's really a sort of a combination of the strategies on the first book and the second book, because the argument in the in the first book is the book, you know, if you're going to go to a publicly traded bank, what's the goal of that thing is to maximize shareholder value, right? So they're not, you're not going to get the best deal because they're figuring out ways to max mail profit on you, whether it's credit cards or those other things, and we've also seen how the banks push a lot of products being with a little Wells Fargo incident, you know, fairly recently. Yeah, so it's really you don't need a bank. that much anymore. You really don't. You can use one if you want to. But the difference is the banks are the wealthy people are using the banks to get wealthy, the 99% are being taken advantage of the banks. And if you understand the system, you can flip that around and just use the banks to make money in. So it's really a combination of those ideas that build on something that came to the next book is you can invest today you can invest with no risk, no tax for the rest of your life. And when you can borrow, you can borrow not from a bank, you can borrow secured by your own investments, with no credit check, no job, whatever you can borrow, and then you can borrow for the sake of investing. So it was really those two books kind of tied together. That gave me the immediate gave me the idea for this third book.

That's great. So Mark, you know, in, in wrapping up here, what's your outlook on the economy, this pandemic and what happens in the next year?

Okay. I would say that, well, first of all, it shouldn't matter. Okay? If you have, if you so my philosophy is simple, all of my clients, if it should matter, you should always build a bet both directions. The things go good, I'm going to make money if things go bad, how can I make more money? That's really the question you should be asking yourself, and you should have a plan for both. So it really shouldn't matter. But so in my opinion, I think that long term, I'm bullish on the market, I've got money. Not just in regular investments, I've got money in what are called leveraged ETFs in certain sectors, and I'm betting for those sectors to recover. So I don't think this I think the meet the media has always been very, very negative on this topic. And I am, I believe that things are going to recover. It's going to take some time, we're not going to see a you know, you can't take out, you know, the economy like it is. But you know, I'm also very optimistic. I'm a very optimistic person as entrepreneur and I think thinks that things are going to kind of work themselves out. I don't know how, but I'm not always doing that. But again, I'm also, if things don't go the way they think they go, I'm not gonna have a problem because I've also got protection on the downside on my investments and things like that. So that's the key is it really should not matter. We're in top 10 ways to avoid taxes. I said, Yes, this was released in late 2018. I said that there's an exon. There's another crash coming in the book. I said it and I said, I don't know if, but I know it's coming. Okay. I didn't think it was gonna be this the Coronavirus that did it. But I knew a crash was coming and things go up forever. And things go down if you understand that, when things were going really really good. I wasn't in the markets. I'd removed all my money from the markets because things were going too good for too long. It felt like 2006 I just knew something's got to come. Something's gonna gonna break here. Okay, but when do I get in the market? That's when everyone was scared and everyone was, you know, scared. That's what I'm getting. Back in because you can't wait for fear to go away by then the market will be all recovered you'll miss an opportunity so but again because I have downside protection on some of my stuff, even if I have to wait an extra year for my my other investments to recover and to become very profitable, I'm okay with it. I can I can wait it out. So But again, it's that's really that's that does that strategy doesn't work with retirement accounts. If you stop all your money retirement accounts, they crash, you can't leverage against them. You can't move the money somewhere else to other investments in general. So another reason why I didn't like retirement accounts.

Julio Gonzalez 41:39
Yeah, I think, you know what, Mark, what I like about podcasts is, you know, I always hope when I listen to a podcast that I get, you know, just one thing from it that, you know, makes me better makes me you know, smarter or do something better. And I think here we've, you know, done that in much more. I think there's been a lot of good advice here. I think People be, you know, really thrilled to have listened to this and to learn some of the things that you shared with us today. So, Mark, in closing, how do people find you?

Mark Quann 42:13
They can go to me I'm on LinkedIn, I'm on Facebook, my company Remy group is also on Facebook. It's the contact information is in the book. So if you buy a top 10 ways to lower taxes, you read it, you have a question, you can text, you can text the company there or send us a message on a question. So plenty ways to find me on social media, Instagram, so lots of places to find me but it directly in the book. I like it. I like it. If people come and come to the table educated on a topic, and they send me a message saying, Hey, I was reading your book and here's the question I have, then we can dig into a particular topic tends to save a lot of time for both myself and my clients that they come in to get educated on a specific topic. Before they come just ask in general are questions right?

I agree.

Julio Gonzalez 43:02
Well, Mark, I've really enjoyed it. So I hope we can have you back when the third books out. And I'm really glad that our audience will benefit from, you know, hearing you today.

Mark Quann 43:16
Well, I'm I want to jump on this podcast because I know you love, you love helping your clients and helping business owners with tax avoidance. So you know many ways, many ways, we have the same goals. And we're just trying to get out there and help people keep more money in their pockets so they can have financial security, and not have to, you know, not sleep well at night because of the things that are relatively easy to solve with the right advisors. And I'm excited to do business with your company, too, because I'm learning a lot all the time. And I've got an opportunity to learn some great stuff from you at the same time.

Julio Gonzalez 43:48
I agree. What a great What a great call. What a great podcast, the Robin Hood, right? Yeah, I mean, he's the true Robin Hood out there. And

Mark Quann 43:55

Julio Gonzalez 43:56
yeah. All right, Mark. Good having you. All right, well, Make sure when people call and have questions, we'll have them get ahold of you.

Mark Quann 44:04
All right, appreciate it. Thanks. Thanks so much, man. Enjoy being on here. Okay. Take care. many

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